“少女皇后”Jil Sander的美术馆首展“Präsenz”（现在时）

Jil Sander被称为“少女皇后”（Queen of Less）：一位在女性时尚的清醒与优雅之间取得平衡的设计师。她也被称为设计师，在她不再是她的品牌之后，她又回到了她的品牌。在法兰克福应用艺术博物馆（MAK，直到2018年5月6日）的展览上，是桑德第一次展览“Präsenz”（现在时）。为了讨论这个展览，我在其咨询公司所在的高档Harvestehude地区的汉堡别墅遇见了Sander，她只是很少接受采访。

Jan Kedves一位设计师在Futura上设计了一个程序化的标志，开启了一个不想追溯的回顾展。 “现在时”的意思是“现在”。

Jil Sander is known as the ‘Queen of Less’: a designer who achieved a balance between sobriety and elegance in women’s fashion. She’s also known as the designer who returned to her brand twice after it was no longer hers. On view at Frankfurt’s Museum for Angewandte Kunst (MAK, through 6 May 2018) is Sander’s first ever exhibition ‘Präsenz’ (Present Tense). To discuss the show, I met Sander – who gives interviews only very rarely – in the Hamburg villa in upscale Harvestehude district where her consulting firm is based.

Jan Kedves  A designer who programmatically set her logo in Futura opens a retrospective that doesn’t want to be retrospective at all. ‘Present Tense’ means ‘now’.

Jil Sander  I was never interested in looking back, but in asking what can be made new. I was also always extremely busy running my company. Believe it or not, I fitted every piece myself, even after we went public. A museum exhibition was never what I had in mind: old clothes on mannequins with people walking past them. Too lifeless for me. Frankfurt seemed right because we started out as a German label. The city is modern in its urban planning and architecture, with close ties to the Bauhaus. The Richard Meier building at MAK is also part of what convinced me.

我从来没有兴趣回头看，但在问什么可以做出新的。我也一直非常忙于经营我的公司。信不信由你，我自己装了每一件，甚至在我们上市之后。博物馆的展览从来不是我想到的：人体模特上穿着旧衣服，人们走过它们。对我来说太没有生气了。法兰克福似乎是对的，因为我们是作为一个德国品牌开始的这个城市在城市规划和建筑方面是现代化的，与包豪斯关系密切。 MAK的理查德·迈耶建筑也是我信服的一部分。

JK  As with your design, in the exhibition you seem to resist the temptation to fill every empty space.

JS  But purely minimal is also too little for me. It becomes too cool, too lacking in emotion. An empty room only works, for example, when it has excellent proportions. Then you can put in a chair and it’s perfect. It’s the same with fashion. You’re always working with the same forms: the jacket, the coat, the shirt. It’s always about a modern cut and an innovative use of materials. Even if the things end up looking easy and simple, we ultimately know how difficult it is to make things appear effortless.

对于我来说，纯粹的微乎其微。它变得太酷，太缺乏情感。例如，一个空房间只有在比例很好的时候才起作用。那么你可以放在椅子上，这是完美的。这跟时尚一样。你总是使用相同的形式：夹克，大衣，衬衫。它总是关于现代切割和材料的创新使用。即使事情变得简单易懂，我们最终也知道让事情变得毫不费力。

JK  It’s remarkable that your designs, and the compilations of runway shows presented in Milan, never look ‘old’, though some are over three decades old. Normally, fashion marks the passage of time. Can you make any sense of the paradox ‘timelessly modern’?

JK你们的设计和米兰时装表演的汇编非常引人注目，虽然有些已经有三十多年的历史了，通常，时尚标志着时间的流逝。你能理解“永恒的现代”悖论吗？

JS我希望展览能有这个效果。我非常了解你提到的悖论。我总是说我不会再设计两件白色上衣，因为时代精神体现在细节和比例上。面料的发展也带来了不断的创新。你可以在季节之后开发新的时装，看起来是“永恒的现代”，然而在一段时间之后，它们显得陈旧。我们的眼睛，无论在潜意识里，都擅长区分熟悉的东西和新的东西。

JK你还记得50年前启发你设计服装的第一件事吗？你曾经学过纺织工程，曾担任时装编辑。什么是你只需要做自己，因为没有人做到这一点？

JS一切都需要以不同的方式完成。当时女性时尚的减少是有问题的，因为她们以古板的方式塑造了女性的女性气质。根据我自己的想法来设计比简单地去寻找适合我需要的现有服装要困难得多。我也不喜欢面料。作为一名年轻女子，男士面料的启发让我花费更多的时间去发展更多的中性面料。但就我的第一个灵感来说，那是我当时的时装编辑。因为我想要为我的时尚传播有更多的相片设计，我天真地建议改变制造商。这导致了我的第一个设计工作。

JS  I hoped that the exhibition would have this effect. I’m very aware of the paradox you mention. I’ve always said I would never design the same white blouse twice, because the zeitgeist is reflected in details and proportions. The development of fabrics brings constant innovation, too. You can develop new fashions season after season that seem ‘timelessly modern’ and nonetheless look old after a while. Our eyes, however subconsciously, are good at distinguishing what’s familiar from what’s new.

First Constanze，然后是Petra。这两本杂志都是由Gruner＆Jahr在汉堡出版的。佩特拉依然存在。那时候，在六十年代中期，这是一本现代杂志。当我制作时装时，我会去服装制造商，亲切地要求他们改变一个细节，让我更好地拍摄衣服。这意味着我一直与制造商保持良好的接触。然后，我开始了自由设计，最后我想：我可以自己做。

JK  Can you still remember the very first thing that inspired you to start designing clothing 50 years ago? You’d studied textile engineering and worked as a fashion editor. What is it that you simply had to make yourself because nobody else was making it?

JS  Everything needed to be done differently. The cuts in women’s fashion at the time were problematic because they typecast women as feminine in an old-fashioned way. It was simpler to design according to my own ideas than to painstakingly seek out existing clothing that fit my needs. I didn’t like the fabrics, either. As a young woman, men’s fabrics inspired me to spend time developing more androgynous fabrics. But as far as my first inspiration, it was while I was working as a fashion editor. Because I wanted to have more photogenic designs for my fashion spreads, I naïvely suggested alterations to the manufacturers. This led to my first design jobs.

JK  Which fashion magazines did you edit?

JS  First Constanze, and then Petra. Both magazines were published by Gruner & Jahr in Hamburg. Petra still exists. Back then, in the mid-’60s, it was a modern magazine. When I produced a fashion spread, I would go to the clothing manufacturers and cheekily ask them to change one detail or another for me to better photograph the clothes. This meant I always maintained good contact with manufacturers. Then I started with freelance design, and finally I thought: I can do this myself.

但几个月之后，我告诉他他可以把车停下来，毕竟我想去加州。这是一个非常重要的决定。我在加利福尼亚州度过的时光让我更加果断和自信。当我飞到那里时，这是我第一次乘飞机。像个小孩。在当时的西德，加州的态度和生活方式只能从海报中得到熟悉。我喜欢这种自由的感觉，这个梦想超越了所有的规则 - 没有人告诉你“你必须准时”的事情。加州也是一个没有等级制度的世界，至少就服装而言，因为着装规范在这种气候下是非常放松的。我特别被这个世界的肉体所吸引，被它的不同类型的运动，休闲和光照所吸引.

JJ你会说加利福尼亚被反映在你的设计中吗？

JS也许你可以说我想从这个东西美丽的，充满活力的生活，尽管德国的气候不太好客。这就是为什么我没有装饰衣服，而是让身体的存在通过现代剪裁脱颖而出。我试图揭开物理的神秘面纱.

JK  The MAK exhibition also includes a biographical detail about you that is not very well known: you went to California for a year after university, before you were a fashion editor. What led you to California at that time?

JS  I was enrolled at UCLA, where you could study whatever you wanted. I stayed with a host family as a foreign exchange student. My father was skeptical. He had given me a VW and told me to stay in Germany. But after a few months I told him he could keep the car, I wanted to go to California after all. This was a very important decision; the time I spent in California made me more decisive and assertive. When I flew there, it was the first time I’d ever taken an airplane. Like a baby. In West Germany at that time, the California attitude and lifestyle was familiar only from posters. I loved this sense of freedom, this dream of being outside all the rules – nobody telling you things like ‘you have to be punctual’. California was a world without hierarchies, too, at least as far as clothing was concerned, because dress codes are extremely relaxed in that climate. I was especially enthralled by the physicality of that world, by its different kind of sportiness, this casualness and also the light.

JK  Would you say that California is reflected in your design?

JS  Perhaps you could say that I wanted to translate something from this beautiful, dynamic life into European clothing even though the climate in Germany was less hospitable. That’s why I didn’t decorate the clothing, but rather let a bodily presence come to the fore through modern cuts. I was trying to demystify the physical.

在黑色的人体模特的房间里，衣领里面有一层镀金的外套。这是一件不起眼的衣服，当风吹起来，衣领折叠起来时，它会变得醒目。而从2009年到2011年，您为优衣库设计的+ J系列产品首先因其超轻羽绒服而闻名。这些都是为防止感冒而设计的。这些都是可爱的观察。在我年轻的时候，我开始着迷于男装，看不见的内饰几乎比外表更重要：手艺，设计师的标签或衬里。服装隐藏着这些秘密，我非常喜欢。就保护而言，我总是发现过多的装饰和装饰令人烦恼，因为它们显示了佩戴者的炫耀或不安全感。更多的克制和凝聚力似乎更适合我。这与我在德国北部的汉萨同盟保持一致，这也是我作为年轻女商人所需要的。当我和美国的百货公司进行谈判的时候，我想和他们平等的互动，而不是像一些小女人那样漂亮的。保留的颜色和纯粹削减赢得了尊重。展览包含1996年与彪马合作的运动鞋。当时，Jil Sander是第一个与运动鞋制造商合作的奢侈时尚品牌.

JS当时我对这种新的运动鞋文化非常感兴趣，但是我对这些材料并不满意。我已经开始在意大利生产自己的运动鞋，看起来精致高雅。他们可以与优雅的外套一起穿。由于技术要求，我们当时无法硫化意大利的鞋底。那么我们问自己：我们去耐克，阿迪达斯还是彪马？我们去了三个中最小的彪马，和他们一起发展了“国王”（1996）。这些拳击鞋是我们用非常柔软的手套皮革塑造成代表奢华的形式。你无法想象这个回应。在东京，人们在凌晨三点在商店门口等候。

JK  In the famous Peter Lindbergh portrait from 1991, which appears on posters for ‘Present Tense’, you clutch the collar of your coat protectively in front of your neck. In the room with the black felt mannequins, there’s a coat with gold plating on the inside of the collar. It’s an inconspicuous article of clothing that then becomes eye-catching when the wind blows and the collar is folded over. And the +J collection that you designed for Uniqlo from 2009 to 2011 was known above all for its ultralight down jackets. These are designed for protection from the cold.

JS  Those are lovely observations. Very early in my youth, I became fascinated with the way that, in menswear, the unseen interior is almost more important than the external appearance: the workmanship, the designer’s label or the lining. I like it very much when clothing harbours those sorts of secrets.

As far as protection is concerned, I’ve always found excessive ornamentation and decoration bothersome because they display the wearer’s ostentation or insecurity. A bit more restraint and cohesion seemed more appropriate to me. This was in keeping with my native Hanseatic northern Germany, and it’s also what I myself needed as a young businesswoman. When I was negotiating with American department store groups, I wanted to interact with them on an equal footing and not as some little lady decked out in pretty frippery. Reserved colours and purist cuts earned me respect.

JK  The exhibition contains sneakers from your 1996 collaboration with Puma. At the time, Jil Sander was the first luxury fashion label to partner with a sneaker manufacturer.

JS  At the time I was very interested in the new sneaker culture, but I wasn’t happy with the materials. I had already begun producing my own sneakers in Italy that looked sophisticated and elegant; they could be worn together with an elegant coat. At the time we couldn’t vulcanize the soles in Italy due to technical requirements. So then we asked ourselves: do we go to Nike, Adidas or Puma? We went to Puma, the smallest of the three, and with them developed the ‘King’ (1996). These were boxing shoes that we shaped out of very soft glove leather into a form that represented luxury. You can’t imagine the response. In Tokyo people waited in front of the stores at three in the morning.

现在，奢侈品运动鞋是一个巨大的市场。拉夫·西蒙斯与阿迪达斯合作，甚至爱马仕和路易威登也出售运动鞋...

JS是的，这是正确的时机.

JK你听起来很谦虚.

JS它发生了一些事情，反复发生，你说这是正确的地方在正确的时间。彪马的鞋子是对那个时代真是多么偶然的问题的回答。在优衣库，我的+ J系列羽绒服的关键问题是：怎样才能把北脸和巴塔哥尼亚已经出现的光线下降（称为包裹下降）的趋势如此接近，使得夹克仍然看起来精致，而不是 - 如果我可以这样说 - 作为野营装备？JK你也很早就进入了名牌化妆品，在1979年带出你的第一个气味，“女人纯”.

JS可以说，我们做化妆品以不同的方式。例如，指甲油的小美容瓶：我们发明它，因为大瓶子总是干得这么快，看起来如此笨重。或者小口红。那时候，紧身牛仔裤还没有伸展，所以你不得不躺在你的背上把它们拉起来。我总是说我想把口红放在我的牛仔裤里。所有这些产品其实都是关于机动性的，不是吗？

JS这是真的。当你将你感觉和适合的个人需求翻译成产品时，它可以是非常成功的。

JK  These days, luxury sneakers are a huge market. Raf Simons collaborates with Adidas, and even Hermès and Louis Vuitton sell sneakers…

JS  Yes, it was the right moment in time.

JK  You sound very modest.

JS  It happens repeatedly in fashion that something is invented and you say it was the right place at the right time. The Puma shoe was an answer to the question of how casual that moment actually was. And with the down jackets for my +J line at Uniqlo, the key question was: how can the trend for light down (known as package down), already present at North Face and Patagonia, be picked up in such a way that the jacket still looks refined and not – if I may say so – as camping gear?

JK  You also got into designer cosmetics very early on, bringing out your first scent, ‘Woman Pure’, in 1979.

JS  It could be said that we did cosmetics in a different way. For example, the little beauty bottle for nail polish: we invented it because the big bottles always dried out so quickly and looked so clunky. Or the small lipsticks. At that time, there was still no stretch in tight jeans, so you had to lie on your back to zip them up. I always said I wanted to keep my lipstick in my jeans.

JK  All of these products are actually about mobility too, aren’t they?

JS  That’s true. When you translate the kinds of personal needs that you feel and that fit the moment into products, it can be very successful.

JK  Is the impression in the exhibition that you did not book models of colour in your shows in the ’90s deceptive? It was the only point in the exhibition where I thought: that would no longer be up-to-date today.

JS  Perhaps you haven’t seen enough, then? For example, I booked Naomi Campbell from very early on, and repeatedly for several years during the supermodel era. I have absolutely nothing against black or Asian models. I remember that this was brought up when I went back to Jil Sander for the last time in 2012, and we followed through with it in our casting too. What is ultimately important to me personally, though, is the model’s personality and poise, and perhaps a spirit that you see when you look at a model. I’ve actually always made casting decisions on the basis of that feeling.

JK  Would you have been able to do an exhibition like the one in Frankfurt under your own name earlier? Or was there a blocking period that you had to wait out after you sold your company to Prada in 1999?

JS  I had to wait. The whole thing was actually originally planned as a joint venture. It definitely was not about me wanting to sell my company. Prada wanted to become a large conglomerate like LVMH or Kering, and at the time we had a lot of growth potential in the area of accessories. Today luxury labels generate up to 90% of their revenue from accessories such as glasses, shoes and bags. At the time, 80% of our revenue came from clothing. Clothing had always been my focus. Joint ventures were fashionable at the time, and Prada made an offer. In the end it didn’t work, and after four months I stepped down. That was very difficult for me, but necessary.

JK  In an interview with British Vogue in 2011, your successor at Jil Sander, Raf Simons, described his first – and presumably only – encounter with you at Art Basel. You ran into each other randomly at a hot dog stand. He said that you were very friendly to him and that you seemed happy. Does his description line up with what you remember?

JS  Yes, I remember that pleasant encounter.

JK  Do you have anything more to say about it?

JS  No, because I don’t know Raf Simons. I’ve only met him once. Of course, when you’ve spent your whole life building up a company, as I have, you’re interested in whether the company continues to thrive, whether the company carries on. In the time when Raf Simons worked for Jil Sander, he helped keep the label from going under. I also hope that the new designers…

JK  …Lucie and Luke Meier…

JS  …that they’re successful and that things turn out well for them. We have a good relationship with the company in Japan that Jil Sander belongs to today. The Jil Sander management came to Frankfurt for the opening and had a look at my exhibition. The new designers did, too.

JK  Helmut Lang made a cleaner break from his label than you did. He says very matter-of-factly that when you’ve sold something, it’s not yours anymore. He also sold his label to Prada.

JS A lot of people who’ve sold their companies give this advice, of course: that you should never go back; that you always have to keep moving forward. When one door closes, another one opens. But perhaps I was really like a divorced woman who still has children with her ex-husband and wants to take care of them. Both times that I went back to Jil Sander as a designer, I had the same feeling. And I can tell you, sitting here today, that I’ve stomached everything well, that everything is OK.

JK  Little is shared publicly about your private life. The exhibition catalogue quotes you as saying, ‘Freely unfolding sensuality is more important to me than the classification of people into two genders.’ This is a very beautiful, poetic statement that a lot of people would probably shorten to ‘I’m queer’ or ‘I don’t see the world through a heteronormative lens’.

JS  Perhaps stating those sorts of positions creates new boundaries that I consider unnecessary. Freedom consists precisely in liberation from unambiguousness. As a designer, I have always sought clothing that brings us sympathy as human beings and emphasizes our personalities rather than our sexual preferences, however varied they may be.

在2011年接受“英国时尚”杂志采访时，Jil Sander的继任者Raf Simons在巴塞尔艺术博览会上描述了他的第一次（也许是唯一的一次）与你的相遇。你们在热狗摊上随意碰到对方。他说你对他很友善，而且你看起来很开心。他的描述是否与你所记得的一致？

JS是的，我记得那个愉快的遭遇.

JK你还有什么要说的吗？

JS不，因为我不知道Raf Simons。我只见过他一次当然，如果你已经花了整整一辈的时间建立一个公司，就像我一样，你对公司是否继续发展感兴趣，无论公司是否继续。在Raf Simons为Jil Sander工作的时候，他帮助保持了标签不受损害。我也希望新的设计师...

JK ...露西和卢克·迈耶...

JS ...他们是成功的，事情对他们来说很好。我们和Jil Sander今天在日本的公司有很好的关系。 Jil Sander管理层来到法兰克福开幕并看看我的展览。 他说，事实上，当你卖掉东西的时候，它已经不是你的了。他还把自己的品牌卖给了Prada.

JS当然，很多卖掉公司的人都会给出这样的建议：你永远不应该回头;你必须总是继续前进。当一扇门关上时，另一扇门打开。但也许我真的像一个离婚的女人，和前夫还有孩子，想照顾他们。我两次回到Jil Sander作为设计师，我都有同样的感觉。我可以告诉你，今天坐在这里，我已经做好了一切，一切都好.

JK Little公开分享你的私人生活。展览会的目录引用你的话说：“自由地展现感性对我来说比把人分成两性更重要”，这是一个非常美丽，诗意的说法，很多人可能会缩短为“我很奇怪”或者“我没有通过异质镜头来看待世界”。也许说出这种立场会产生新的界限，我认为这是不必要的。自由正是从毫不含糊的解放中解脱出来的。作为设计师，我一直在寻找服装，这给我们带来了人类的同情，强调了我们的个性，而不是我们的性偏好，不管他们是多么的多样化

JK  The exhibition shows that in 1996, you conceived a large outdoor sculpture for the Florence Biennale together with Mario Merz. What does your engagement with art mean to you?

JS  What has always interested me about art is its distinctive perception of the world and its individual signature. The emotional presence of the hand in a work by Agnes Martin or Cy Twombly, the surprisingly touching effect that Robert Ryman generates through his concentrated exploration of non-colouredness, or the moods that James Turrell produces with the medium of light. I admire the way Eva Hesse’s works combine power with fragility, and the lightness that Richard Serra’s sculptures evince despite their heavy materials.

JK  Has looking at and collecting art influenced your approach to your own exhibition?

JS  Not at all. But my engagement with art has been reaffirmed to me frequently. And it has repeatedly led me to see more sharply. I’m interested in quality, and that’s true for all areas and can be very simple sometimes. After all, I’m a gardener too. Nature has always inspired me.

JK  This is apparent in the video installation Garden, perhaps the most surprising inclusion in ‘Present Tense’: a 15-minute video from summer 2017 about the giant English garden in your home in Schleswig-Holstein. It makes the viewer want to go there immediately.

JS  The garden was created over a long period, over 30 years. I designed it together with Dicky Mommsen. There used to be woods and a paddock. We planted everything that appears in the video. I’d say that it too is a little life’s work.

1996年，您和Mario Merz一起为佛罗伦萨双年展构思了一个大型户外雕塑。你与艺术的接触对你来说意味着什么？

JS一直对我感兴趣的是艺术对世界的独特看法和个人签名。在Agnes Martin或者Cy Twombly的作品中，手的情绪化存在，Robert Ryman通过对非色彩的浓缩探索，或者James Turrell用光线产生的情绪，产生了令人惊讶的感人效果。我很欣赏伊娃·黑塞（Eva Hesse）的作品将力量与脆弱结合在一起，理查德·塞拉（Richard Serra）的雕塑尽管材料沉重，但表现出的轻盈感.

JK看着和收藏艺术影响了你对自己展览的方法吗？

JS根本就不是。但是我与艺术的交往经常得到我的重申。而且它一再使我更加尖锐地看到。我对质量感兴趣，对于所有领域都是如此，有时候可能非常简单。毕竟，我也是一个园丁。自然一直激励着我.

JK这在视频装置花园中很明显，也许是“现在时”中最令人惊讶的一个内容：从2017年夏季开始，您将在石勒苏益格 - 荷尔斯泰因州的一个大型的英式花园观看15分钟的视频。这使得观众想要立即去那里.

JS花园创造了很长一段时间，超过30年。我和Dicky Mommsen一起设计的过去有树林和围场。我们种植了视频中出现的所有内容。

JK  Almost everything the video shows is nature, and yet it’s moving and very intimate.

JS  At first I wasn’t sure whether to show the garden. But I thought it was a good idea to film it from above with a drone. I made this video with the photographer Norbert Schoerner with the ambition of finding a form different from a BBC nature documentary. The video was also, perhaps, supposed to be a bit spiritual or meditative. For example, the water fountain shoots up into the sunlight, where a rainbow then appears. It was a little greeting to Dicky Mommsen, who can’t see the exhibition for herself.

JK  I’m surprised to hear you mention Dicky Mommsen by name…

JS  For my whole life, I have made sure that my privacy was protected. Nonetheless, there were headlines in the newspaper Bild in 2013 when Ms Mommsen became ill and I decided to give up my work at Jil Sander. I don’t know where that came from. I didn’t want it. But in this case…you already know that she died. With the video, I’m saying: she would like this. It’s highly personal, but that doesn’t bother me. But the video of our garden is also a reference to nature. Nature has always played an important role in my design, because I wanted to give a leading role to the different natures of the people wearing my designs.

JK  Is it you in a hoodie, riding boots and a baseball cap who we see from behind, standing by the pond and gazing into the distance?

JS  Yes, that’s me, in a sort of Caspar David Friedrich perspective.

JK  So it’s a combination of Friedrich’s Woman before the Rising Sun (1818) and Wanderer above the Sea of Fog (1818)?

JS  As you know, I really don’t like to be photographed. I’d rather just do my work. Beforehand we had nothing but thunderstorms and rain, and only three days to film. Then, like a miracle, the weather turned and the video became so intimate. We got up at three in the morning and let the sun come up. I find it very beautiful, the way it is.

JK几乎所有视频展示的都是大自然，然而它却在移动，非常亲密。

JS起初我不确定是否要去花园。但是我认为用无人机从上面拍摄是个好主意。我和摄影师诺伯特·舍尔纳（Norbert Schoerner）一起制作了这个视频，他们的目标是找到与BBC自然纪录片不同的形式。这部影片也许应该是有点精神或沉思的。例如，水喷泉射入阳光，出现彩虹。这是对Dicky Mommsen的一个问候，他不能亲自看到这个展览.

JK听到你提到Dicky Mommsen的名字，我很惊讶...

JS一生中，我确信我的隐私得到了保护。尽管如此，2013年“图片报”（Bild）的头条新闻是蒙森女士生病，我决定放弃在吉尔桑德（Jil Sander）的工作。我不知道从哪里来。我不想要它。但在这种情况下......你已经知道她死了。随着视频，我说：她会喜欢这个。这是非常个人的，但是这并没有打扰我。但是我们花园的视频也是对自然的一个参考。大自然在我的设计中一直扮演着重要的角色，因为我想给穿着我的设计的人们带来不同的性格.

JK你是不是穿着我们从后面看到的连帽衫，马靴和棒球帽，站在池边，望着远方？

JS是的，那就是我，就像是一种Caspar David Friedrich的视角.

JK所以这是一个在1818年的起义之前的弗里德里希的女人和1818年的雾之上的流浪者的组合，如你所知，我真的不喜欢被拍照。我宁愿做我的工作。我们之前只有雷雨，只有三天时间拍摄。然后，就像一个奇迹，天气转向，视频变得如此亲密。我们在凌晨三点起床，让太阳升起。

Jane YagerJil Sander的第一个展览“Präsenz”（现在时）正在法兰克福应用艺术博物馆（MAK）展出，直到2018年5月6日。

translated by Jane Yager

Jil Sander’s first ever exhibition ‘Präsenz’ (Present Tense) is on view at Frankfurt’s Museum for Angewandte Kunst (MAK) until 6 May 2018.

_{Main image: ‘Jil Sander S/S 2005 campaign. Photograph: © David Sims}

A rare, in-depth interview with fashion designer Jil Sander

By Jan Kedves