Interview: Ronan Bouroullec – 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

13 Aug 2018

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec

The Paris-based designer’s drawings for the 2018 campaign celebrate the beauty of line and form

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec

This year’s marketing campaign for Frieze Fairs celebrates the beauty of line and form, with drawings by Paris-based designer Ronan Bouroullec for Frieze London and a focus on drapery in classical art at the National Gallery, for Frieze Masters. 

An interview with Ronan Bouroullec usually also includes his brother, Erwan. Together, they comprise a powerhouse of Paris-based design, giving imaginative, contemporary expression to everyday objects over the past two decades. Sketches have often accompanied their design work and Bouroullec’s colourful drawings, which he now regularly shares on Instagram, evoke any number of interpretations. Mastering line sequences using only markers, he arrives at dimensional shapes that are at once fluid and fibrous, conceptual and constructed. In conversation with Amy Verner, he notes the ease of letting his subconscious take over and the challenge of articulating the outcome.

Amy Verner Do you think of yourself as an artist or as a designer?

Ronan Bouroullec I’m not at all interested in labels. I’ve had to explain myself a lot because I’ve been drawing since before I even started creating objects. I think I could probably stop making objects but I could never stop drawing. As a designer, at some point I started showing the drawings because I felt it could bring understanding to another type of work — that of making objects. But for me, it’s the same, whether I’m taking a photograph, designing an object, or thinking about the format of a book; I consider myself a creator with a wide range of platforms and media.

AV This makes sense, mainly because in your drawings, there’s a fluidity — no beginning or end.

RB Yes, the approach is very different. I’m not a very structured person. Drawing for me is not intellectualized in the sense that I don’t think at all about what I’m doing. When I start, I don’t know what I want it to look like. It’s not automatic like writing, but a bit like self-hypnosis where you go from point A to point B and you don’t remember how you got there. You’re driven by some mechanical impulse.

AV But little by little, you have to make choices: Will my hand go this way, what density, which colour...

RB You’ll notice that drawings are constructions; they can be mechanic and demand more focus, or organic and more like dancing, as when the body takes over. It’s a practice that’s very free, not organized.

AV How has Instagram shaped the way you present your work? Clearly, you curate what you post.

RB Yes, there are two types of drawings: there are sketches for research, and these have a goal: to drive my thoughts and take notes. The others are like a very spontaneous diary. I might post drawings on a daily basis, but in a very intuitive way, never calculated; it reflects the way I see the world and what I create.

AV Do you draw only in particular conditions: a certain place or time?

RB Yes. Never here in the atelier. Only at home, at night when I have time. Also, often in Brittany, which is where we grew up. I love drawing when complemented with surfing or just being in the water. For me, drawing is very organic; it’s a special activity that has nothing to do with work. I could have been knitting instead – any activity that is a kind of meditation.

AV Is the satisfaction of the outcome different when drawing than realizing an object?

RB I love being a designer, but it can be very frustrating: from the initial idea to the physical object in a store or in someone’s home; it’s years of work — and years of joys and disappointments, because some things you believed in don’t work. It’s also collective work done with producers, engineers, craftsmen; whereas drawing is the purest form of creation, with no interferences, no technical needs.

AV You said you’ve always been drawing?

RB Yes, I grew up in the countryside and at a very young age, around seven or eight, my parents sent me to the École des Beaux-Arts in Quimper. So I started practicing as did Erwan. And I’ve been drawing ever since. We were pretty isolated and bored, and drawing was a way to fill the void and fight the solitude. Incidentally, my teachers actually often considered me a bad student because I start drawing a chair from its feet and go all the way up; I start with details. Which is not the way it should be done.

AV Your hand is extremely precise.

RB Yes, just like dancing or playing the piano, it’s also physical. It’s mastering a technique, a culture of shapes. My first exhibition as a designer was almost 30 years ago, so it’s a whole practice. Proportions and shapes are printed in my brain. That’s what’s paradoxical: it’s not intellectualized, it’s sensual, instinctive. Yet there’s still 40 years of knowledge and experience behind the practice.

AV Do you seek wonder in your work?

RB Yes, wonder is important to me; like a shock or an emotion, it’s a pleasure in opposition to intellectual, which needs explanations. This is what design lacks. When in music or cinema, wonder is entirely possible; you see something and you cry immediately. When you make a chair, it’s more complicated to create this reaction, to take someone’s breath away. But I try to get there.

AV It seems obvious that you are trying to convey dimension – 3D shapes on a 2D page. Is this related to your work as a designer?

RB Probably, yes. It’s a fact, a reality. I work on depth, on volume, translated in very different ways.

AV By contrast, do you need to draw your designs in order to realize them?

RB It’s interesting, because now I don’t need really to make sketches for projects anymore; I simply see them. That’s the benefit of being an old designer. So now drawing and design are even more separated; I need to draw more and more, and at the same time I don’t need sketches anymore.

AV Are you inspired by classic arts?

RB No, I’m not very cultured art-wise or even design-wise; and I’m happy to not know too much. I was lucky enough to be interested in design since around the age of 15; I was living in the countryside where there were just a few design books, and I loved that time when I knew nothing. Each time I saw an image, it was like a treasure. Today, I see very few exhibitions, I try to stay naive. Sometimes when you research something, you see someone had the idea before and you stop right there. If you don’t know, you go for it and the final object turns out different anyway.

AV As this campaign shows, many classical and academic painters have a certain signature when It comes to depicting textiles. Would you say you have a signature?

RB Maybe in the constructive mode: line after line, like a construction worker with bricks, or how I use lines to build volumes. But it never starts with the silhouette of a shape, because that would mean I have projected an idea. I don’t plan on colors, they come naturally. I don’t really know how to talk about my drawings, all I can say is it’s instinctive and intuitive.

AV Then the inevitable art question: when do you know a drawing is finished?

RB With objects it’s never finished until it’s perfect; on the other hand, with drawings, I’m just happy to know people find them interesting because I don’t have specific criteria. But there’s a need for it to be quick – in opposition to the lengthy work of design. And I like the adrenaline of this intensity.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Images courtesy of Ronan Bouroullec and National Gallery, London.

Ronan Bouroullec
Frieze London

13八月2018日访谈:Ronan Bouroullec巴黎设计师为2018活动设计的线条和形式的美感Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec WPA6022602IMGWPA603602IMG Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan Bouroullec Interview: Ronan Bouroullec - 采访:Ronan BouroullecWPA6026602IMG今年的FRIEZE博览会的营销活动庆祝线条和形式的美丽,与绘画巴黎设计师Ronan Bouroullec为弗里泽伦敦,专注于国家美术馆古典艺术中的帷幔,为弗里泽大师。Ronan Bouroullec的采访通常也包括他的兄弟Erwan。他们共同组成了一个以巴黎为基础的设计,在过去的二十年里给日常事物提供了富有想象力的当代表达。素描往往伴随着他们的设计工作,Bouroullec的彩色画,他现在经常分享Instagram,唤起任何数量的解释。掌握线序列仅使用标记,他到达一维形状,一旦流体和纤维,概念和构造。在与Amy Verner的谈话中,他注意到让他的潜意识接受的轻松性和表达结果的挑战。Amy Verner:你认为自己是艺术家还是设计师?Ronan Bouroullec,我对标签一点也不感兴趣。我不得不解释我自己,因为我甚至在我开始创建对象之前就一直在画画。我想我可以停止制作物体,但我永远不会停止绘画。作为一个设计师,在某个时候,我开始展示图纸,因为我觉得它可以使理解另一种类型的工作-制作对象。但对我来说,无论是拍照片、设计物体还是思考书籍的格式都是一样的,我认为自己是一个拥有广泛的平台和媒体的创造者。AV这是有意义的,主要是因为在你的绘画中,有流动性——没有开始或结束。是的,方法是非常不同的。我不是一个很有组织的人。对我来说,绘画不是理智化的,因为我根本不考虑我在做什么。当我开始的时候,我不知道我想要它看起来像什么。这不是自动写作,而是有点像自我催眠,你从A点到B点,你不记得你是如何到达那里的。你被某种机械冲动所驱使。AV可是一点一点,你必须做出选择:我的手会这样走,什么密度,哪个颜色…RB你会注意到,绘画是结构,它们可以是机械的,需要更多的焦点,或者有机的,更像跳舞,就像身体接管时一样。这是一个非常自由、没有组织的练习。AInstagram如何塑造你的工作方式?很明显,你可以处理你的帖子。是的,有两种类型的图画:有研究的草图,这些有一个目标:驱动我的想法和笔记。其他人就像一个非常自发的日记。我可能每天都贴图纸,但以一种非常直观的方式,从来没有计算过,它反映了我看到世界和我创造的方式。AV你只在特定的条件下绘制:某个地方还是时间?是的。永远不要在工作室里。只有在家里,晚上当我有时间的时候。而且,通常在布列塔尼地区,这是我们成长的地方。我喜欢画画当补充冲浪或只是在水中。对我来说,绘画是非常有机的,它是一种与工作无关的特殊活动。我本来可以编织的——任何一种冥想的活动。AV是绘画时的结果与实现物体不同的结果的满足吗?我喜欢做一个设计师,但它会让人非常沮丧:从最初的想法到商店或某人家中的实物,这是多年的工作,多年的快乐和失望,因为你相信的一些东西是行不通的。这也是与生产者、工程师、工匠一起完成的集体工作,而绘画是最纯粹的创作形式,没有干扰,没有技术需求。你说你一直在画画吗?是的,我在乡下长大,在很小的时候,大约七到八岁,我的父母把我送到了坎佩尔的艺术博物馆。所以我开始练习Erwan。从那时起我就一直在画画。我们非常孤独和无聊,绘画是填补空虚和对抗孤独的一种方式。顺便说一句,我的老师们通常认为我是个坏学生,因为我开始从椅子上拉椅子,一路走上去,我从细节开始。这不是它应该做的方式。你的手非常精确。是的,就像跳舞或弹钢琴一样,它也是物理的。它掌握了一种技术,一种形状的文化。我作为设计师的第一次展览是近30年前,所以这是一个完整的实践。比例和形状印在我的脑子里。这是矛盾的:它不是理智化的,是感性的,本能的。然而,在实践背后仍有40年的知识和经验。你在工作中寻找奇迹吗?是的,奇迹对我来说很重要,就像一种震撼或是一种情感,它是一种与理智对立的快乐,它需要解释。这就是设计的不足之处。当你在音乐或电影中,奇迹是完全可能的;你看到了什么,你立刻哭了。当你坐椅子的时候,创造这种反应会更复杂,让某人的呼吸消失。但我试着去那里。AV似乎很明显,你试图传达维度-三维形状的2D页。这与你作为设计师的工作有关吗?可能是,是的。这是事实,现实。我工作的深度,卷,以非常不同的方式翻译。相比之下,你需要画你的设计来实现它们吗?RB很有趣,因为现在我不再需要为项目做草图了,我只是看到了它们。这是作为一个老设计师的好处。所以现在绘画和设计更加分离;我需要画越来越多的画,同时我不再需要素描了。你受古典艺术的启发吗?不,我不是很有艺术修养,甚至设计聪明,我很高兴不知道太多。我从15岁起就开始对设计感兴趣了。我住在乡下,那里只有几本设计书籍,我喜欢那时候我什么都不知道。每次我看到一张照片,它就像一个宝藏。今天,我看到很少的展览,我尽量保持天真。有时候,当你研究某件事时,你会看到有人之前有过想法,然后你就停在那里。如果你不知道,你去追求它,最终的目标却变得与众不同。正如这场运动所显示的,许多古典和学术画家在描绘纺织品时都有一定的特征。你能说你有签名吗?RB可能是建设性的模式:一条又一条线,像一个建筑工人用砖块,或者我如何使用线来建造卷。但它从不从形状的轮廓开始,因为这意味着我投射了一个想法。我不打算色彩,它们自然地来。我真的不知道如何谈论我的绘画,我只能说它是本能的和直觉的。AV是一个不可避免的艺术问题:你什么时候知道绘画完成了?RB的对象,它从来没有完成,直到它是完美的;另一方面,附图,我很高兴知道人们觉得有趣,因为我没有具体的标准。但有必要使它快速——与设计的冗长工作相对应。我喜欢这种强度的肾上腺素。本次采访被编辑的长度和清晰度。图片由Ronan Bouroullec和国家画廊,伦敦。罗南BurulLeC弗里泽伦敦设计


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