Mara Sartore: This year you participated in the Athens Biennial, without setting foot in your hometown, can you tell us about how you managed this?
玛拉·萨托雷：今年你参加了雅典双年展，没有踏足你的家乡，你能告诉我们你是如何管理这个项目的吗？
Miltos Manetas: I was contacted by Poka-Yio, the founder of the Athens biennial, he was an emerging artist when I was beginning to become well-known in Athens. The biennial had so far been a great success, with each edition better than the next, I had previously participated in the 2013 edition. And taking part in this edition, after Documenta 14, seemed like a good opportunity. I was also interested by the title “Anti”, which in general for the Athenians is significant because it alludes to a historical left-wing magazine called “Anti”.
米尔托斯·曼内塔斯：雅典双年展的创始人波卡·耀与我联系，他是一位新兴的艺术家，当我开始在雅典出名时。到目前为止，双年展取得了巨大的成功，每一个版本都比下一个版本好，我以前参加过2013年的版本。在14号文件之后，参加这个版本似乎是个好机会。我也感兴趣的标题“anti”，这通常对雅典人是重要的，因为它暗示了一个历史左翼杂志称为“anti”。
The first thing that came to mind was to make a piece with Yanis Varoufakis, leader of the transnational Diem25 movement, with whom I’m also collaborating with on a political idea. The idea is to start a campaign in May from Montenero in Sabina, where I am based, it is a very small but beautiful place, lost in nature. The village is actually hosting a ten-years art lasting project of mine. Citizens are very interested in Varoufakis, and for this reason I am using #Overeality, projecting his image with an application on my smartphone simulating his presence amongst citizens, so that when he arrives, he will actually be returning. In this way, and by other creative means, we attempt to bring democracy to Europe, we want to spread the spirit of Diem25 because Varoufakis has seen for himself the absence of democracy ….
想到的第一件事是与跨国DIEM25运动的领导人Yanis Varoufakis合作，I’m也与之合作，提出一个政治想法。我的想法是在五月份从萨比纳的蒙特内罗发起一场运动，那里是一个非常小但美丽的地方，在大自然中消失了。这个村庄实际上正在主持一个我的十年艺术持久项目。公民们对瓦鲁法基斯非常感兴趣，因此我使用了过分的态度，在我的智能手机上用一个应用程序投射他的图像，模拟他在公民中的存在，这样当他到达时，他实际上会回来。通过这种方式，以及其他创造性的方式，我们试图将民主带到欧洲，我们希望传播diem25的精神，因为varoufakis自己看到了民主的缺失，wpap60301qte。
This is a premise to stress that my idea for the biennial was precisely to bring political art, or rather anti-politics, but the biennial was opposed to my proposal. So I asked if they were interested in a project which derived from Documenta. In fact, during Documenta, Marina Fokidis, editor-in-chief of “South Magazine”, one of the most interesting art journals, in my opinion, was swallowed by a whale, that is, by Documenta itself. The journal was extremely powerful, with very real content, nice graphics … it represented what I call the “middle-south” that is a south that accepts being north but without wanting to become so totally … a spirit that pervades Italy from Rome downwards, just as in Greece and the Mediterranean. Marina had captured this spirit perfectly. But when during Documenta 14 Adam Szymczyk asked her to create a magazine specifically for this edition, she created a new one, redesigning the graphics and the concept behind South. Under the direction of Documenta, this became a “Nordic” magazine, like Adam Szymczyk’s curatorial idea, with his character atypical to that of “South”. Marina then succeeded with her determination to get me out because I began to vent with her and to express my frustrations with the idea of handing over her magazine to Documenta, for me it was a failure. From there, in short, our friendship became complicated, however the only remaining bitterness in me is to have lost a journal of great quality like “South as a State of Mind”.
这是一个前提，强调我的双年展理念正是为了带来政治艺术，或者更确切地说是反政治，但双年展反对我的提议。所以我问他们是否对一个源于documenta的项目感兴趣。事实上，在纪录片期间，我认为最有趣的艺术期刊之一，“south magazine”的主编Marina Fokidis被一头鲸鱼吞没了，也就是说，被纪录片本身吞没了。这本杂志非常强大，内容非常真实，图形精美，…，它代表了我所称的“middle-south”，它是一个南方，接受北方，但不想成为如此完全的…，一种精神从罗马向下渗透到意大利，就像希腊和地中海一样。玛丽娜完美地抓住了这种精神。但在纪录片14中，亚当·斯齐姆奇克要求她为这一版本专门制作一本杂志，她创造了一本新杂志，重新设计了南方背后的图形和概念。在文献学的指导下，这成为了一本wpap603004qtnordic”杂志，像亚当·斯齐姆奇克’s策划的想法，他的性格与wpap603004qtsouth”的性格不一样。玛丽娜后来下定决心要把我弄出去，因为我开始和她发泄，并表达我对把她的杂志交给documenta的想法的不满，对我来说，这是一个失败。简而言之，从那以后，我们的友谊变得复杂了，然而，我唯一剩下的痛苦就是失去了一本高质量的杂志，像《南方作为一种心态》603006qte。
From this experience my second proposal for the Athens Biennial came about, this consisted in relaunching “South”, perhaps collaborating with Marina, if she wanted to. An attempt to try again, as in a love affair, where we try to make peace with the past and live in a new eternal future. An attempt to restart Documenta, I regretted that the magazine had lost its #NeoUmile “middle-south” spirit, and was not as moving as it was before. I had also proposed to Documenta 14 to work on #MedioSud with a project based outside of Athens, in Derveni, where I grew up and which is a melting pot of different cultures. The project had been rejected by Documenta that wanted to remain central to Athens …maybe Marina hadn’t help me in this. So I expelled myself from participating.
根据这一经验，我对雅典双年展的第二个建议是重新启动“south”，如果玛丽娜愿意的话，也许可以与她合作。再次尝试的尝试，如在恋爱中，我们试图与过去和平相处，并生活在一个新的永恒的未来。为了重新启动documenta，我遗憾地发现，该杂志已经失去了“中南部”的新潮精神，并不像以前那样感人。我还建议将一个14岁的孩子记录下来，让他在雅典城外的德维尼做一个项目，我在那里长大，这是一个不同文化的大熔炉。这个项目被想留在雅典市中心的文件拒绝了……也许玛丽娜在这方面帮不了我。所以我把自己开除了。
At that point, all this had cast a light on the fact that in the Internet age you can not interrupt a conversation that has already begun. Today everything that passes through the internet can not be stopped. So I continued to write long emails to Documenta and Marina, proposing my help in the curatorial direction of the exhibition, expressing my opinion on the works and artists that I would have seen … for me it was a way to continue my work with Documenta, but I never received any feedback on these reflections.
在这一点上，所有这些都揭示了这样一个事实：在互联网时代，你不能打断已经开始的对话。今天，通过互联网的一切都无法停止。因此，我继续给documenta和marina写了很长的电子邮件，建议我在展览的策展方向上提供帮助，表达我对作品和艺术家的看法，我会看到…对我来说，这是一种继续我对documenta工作的方式，但我从未收到任何关于这些思考的反馈。
I saw many things that I did not like, like the Parthenon made out of books in Kassel. I proposed pushing it down, leaving book chaos … no answer! Angelo Plessas, for example, presented work that was not in his style but rather in that of another friend of ours Maria Papadimitriou, it seemed that the biennial had forced Angelo to make work that did not reflect his style; Angelo would have definitely definitely displayed his best side with his typical internet-related work. Maria, on the other hand should have gone and taken that work, but she hadn’t even been invited.
我看到了许多我不喜欢的东西，比如用卡塞尔的书做成的帕台农神庙。我提议把它往下推，留下书混沌wpap60301qte没有答案！例如，安杰洛·普莱索斯所展示的作品不是他自己的风格，而是我们另一位朋友玛丽亚·帕帕迪米特里欧的风格，似乎两年一度的作品迫使安杰洛做出了不反映他风格的作品；安杰洛肯定会在其典型的互联网相关作品中展现出他最好的一面。玛丽亚，另一方面，她本应该去做那项工作的，但她甚至没有被邀请。WPA60303BR
Mara Sartore: After the Biennale had rejected your two project proposals, how did things evolve?
玛拉·萨托：在双年展拒绝了你的两个项目提案之后，事情是如何发展的？
Miltos Manetas: The Athens Biennale was interested in my digital art, linked to the internet, a theme that was similar to that of the Berlin Biennale 2016, the concept was dedicated to the post-digital era.
米尔托斯·曼内塔：雅典双年展对我的数字艺术感兴趣，它与互联网相连，这是一个类似于2016年柏林双年展的主题，这个概念是专为后数字时代而设计的。
In Athens, however, this “Anti” was heading North rather than to the Middle South. In fact, in 2015, when I was beginning to work on the Berlin Biennial, the organisers asked me for a meeting in Bogota where I live, but at that moment I was leaving for Greece, so I missed the appointment … then from there, with the ‘advent of Yanis Varoufakis and political chaos in Greece, I completely lost sight of this project and the communication with the biennial, so much so that in the end I could not participate. During the spring of 2016 I found myself looking at the biennial site and I was fascinated! It was full of interesting content and this made me realise that I could not miss this event. So I decided to enter this exhibition all the same, and I did this by developing a facsimile of their site, you can still see it here (biennale.net). I entered my name, I created dialogues … I made this creation known to the curators of the biennial and they were enthusiastic.
然而，在雅典，这个“anti”是向北而不是向南中间。事实上，在2015年，当我开始为柏林双年展工作时，组织者要求我在我居住的波哥大开会，但当时我正要去希腊，所以我错过了当时的任命…，当时的WPAP603008qt领先于Yanis Varoufakis，希腊政局混乱，我完全看不到这一点。项目与交流两年一次，如此之多以至于我最终无法参加。在2016年春天，我发现自己在看两年一次的网站，我很着迷！它充满了有趣的内容，这让我意识到我不能错过这个活动。所以我决定还是参加这个展览，我通过制作他们网站的传真来做到这一点，你仍然可以在这里看到它（binnale.net）。我输入了我的名字，我创建了对话WPAP60301qt我让双年展的策展人知道这一创作，他们很热情。
I told them that in my opinion they had missed out some important artists for the biennial, and so I put them on my website. I did not need to go to Berlin to see the event. It was enough to follow the tags and the hashtags of the Berlin Biennale on instagram (#berlinbiennale2016 #bb9) … I noticed that the information appeared following certain patterns, certain formulas. So I took a ride on Instagram and saw a picture of the opening with Klaus Biesenbach who was dressed in what seemed to me almost a Klein Blue, this left an impression on me. So I put a Like on it. That colour, for me, became the colour of the biennial, and of the North, #KlausBlu. With that blue the biennial continues to communicate, now come to think of it, it is also a blue that alludes to the flag of the European Union. Following Klaus’ Instagram profile, I noticed that he always wears blue and I reckon he has become an artist in this way, he introduced his own colour! So I decided to include him among the artists on my website, and this was approved by the biennial itself.
我告诉他们，在我看来，他们错过了一些重要的两年期艺术家，所以我把他们放在了我的网站上。我不需要去柏林看这个活动。在Instagram（Berlinbiennale2016 bb9）…上跟踪柏林双年展的标签和标签就足够了，我注意到信息是按照特定模式、特定公式出现的。所以我坐在Instagram上，看到了一张与克劳斯·比森巴赫开场的照片，他穿着我觉得几乎是克莱恩蓝的衣服，这给我留下了深刻的印象。所以我在上面加了一个“like”。对我来说，这种颜色变成了两年一次的颜色，也变成了北方的颜色。有了蓝色，双年展继续交流，现在想想，它也是一种蓝色，暗指欧盟的国旗。在克劳斯的Instagram简介之后，我注意到他总是穿着蓝色，我认为他已经成为一名艺术家，他介绍了自己的颜色！所以我决定把他列入我网站上的艺术家中，这是两年一度的认可。
From here I started creating a new form of painting made from ‘likes’: it starts from the fact that on Instagram you can find a collection of your likes on a dedicated page and from there you can rearrange them creating what I call #paintingswithlikes, with a juxtaposition of colours similar to that practiced by Seurat, becoming an chronicler of your likes.
从这里开始，我开始创造一种由“喜欢”组成的新绘画形式：它从Instagram上你可以在一个专门的页面上找到你喜欢的收藏，然后你可以重新排列它们，创造出我所说的“喜欢”的绘画，并将颜色与Seurat所练习的颜色并列，成为一个编年史家。你喜欢的。
Then something magical happened: I saw a young artist at the biennial who portrayed Rihanna without a head in one of his pieces, On Instagram, I saw a #bb9, followed by a collection of green dots … it was Rihanna who had had a photo taken of herself glad in green taken next to the piece representing her. After this episode, the hashtags continued to produce this green on other unlinked photos but that came with hashtag #bb9 … a dance made up of this green was created, and then followed by a dance of a purple red introduced by Amalia Ulman and so out of this came a number of red works and so the network synchronised on these tags …
后来发生了一件神奇的事：我在两年一度的艺术展上看到一位年轻的艺术家在他的一幅作品中描绘了蕾哈娜没有头的形象。在Instagram上，我看到了一个BB9，接着是一组绿点…。蕾哈娜在代表她的作品旁边用绿色为自己拍了一张高兴的照片。在这一集之后，标签继续在其他未链接的照片上产生这种绿色，但与标签bb9 wpap603015qt一起，一种由这种绿色组成的舞蹈被创造出来，接着是由Amalia Ulman引入的紫红色舞蹈，因此，从中产生了一些红色作品，因此网络在这些标签wpap60上同步。3015QTE
I realised that this was the most important exhibition after Jeffrey Deitch’s 1990 exhibitions “Cultural Geometry,” “Artificial Nature” and “Post-Human”. Being so important and prolific, I felt that as long as the tags were produced, this exhibition had to be continued. So I continued to include artists despite the biennial being over: I inserted Piero Gilardi, for example, who I had seen at MAXXI.
我意识到这是继Jeffrey Deitch’s 1990年展览wpap603004qSecurultural Geometry、” wpap603004qEartificial Nature ”和“Post Human”之后最重要的展览。由于如此重要和多产，我觉得只要标签被制作出来，这个展览就必须继续。因此，尽管两年一度的结束，我还是继续将艺术家包括在内：例如，我插入了皮耶罗·吉拉迪，他是我在马克西见过的。WPA60303BR
These same significant patterns or formulas did not take shape during Documenta. The tags did not say or respond to anything, on the web the exhibition practically did not exist … I brought this up with Documenta but, once again, they didn’t answer.
这些同样重要的模式或公式并没有在文档中形成。标签上什么都没有说，也没有回应，在网上，这个展览实际上并不存在WPAP603015qt，我带着文档提出这个问题，但再一次，他们没有回答。
So for the Athens Biennale I proposed a continuation of the project which had started at the Berlin Biennale 2016 through my site biennale.net. Obviously this project was also discarded until they made me understand that they did not want my true participation in the biennial. They were interested in my older works, those in which I painted cables ….and to display them they had chosen a place that is sacred to me, where my parents had worked, the Greek telephone exchange skyscraper. My father repaired the cables, while my mother was a receptionist from the 60s to the 80s. And that’s where my painting imagination was born. So, well, I congratulated the curators of the Athens Biennial for choosing that location, I suggested to go there to fix some set-up stuff, but I was rejected by them, I could be wrong but it felt like they did not even want me setting foot there.
因此，对于雅典双年展，我提议通过我的网站biennale.net继续在2016年柏林双年展上启动的项目。很明显，这个项目也被抛弃了，直到他们让我明白他们不希望我真正参与两年期。他们对我以前的作品很感兴趣，我在这些作品中画了WPAP60301qte电缆，为了展示它们，他们选择了一个对我来说是神圣的地方，我父母曾在那里工作过，希腊电话交换摩天大楼。我父亲修理电缆，而我母亲是一个接待员，从60年代到80年代。这是我绘画想象的诞生地。所以，好吧，我祝贺雅典双年展的策展人选择了那个地点，我建议去那里修缮一些布景，但是我被他们拒绝了，我可能是错的，但他们觉得他们甚至不想让我去那里。
Finally I decided to visit the exhibition in Athens virtually… and I started to find the tags # athensbiennale2018 #ab6 and #ANTI . They had blue and red patterns, creating certain leads and so I started working on what I had originally proposed for the biennial, continuing on the project on Instagram that I had initiated at the Berlin Biennale. https://www.instagram.com/berlinbiennial/
最后，我决定虚拟地参观在雅典的展览，我开始发现标签AthensBiennale2018 AB6和Anti。他们有蓝色和红色的图案，创造了一些线索，所以我开始研究我最初为两年期提出的建议，继续我在柏林两年期发起的Instagram项目。https://www.instagram.com/berlinbiennial/
Today, art makes artificial intelligence that is not artificial intelligence in a technical sense but as a composite of real elements. It was a blessing in disguise that Athens kept me away, because this allowed me to bring life to my project. The network started talking …
今天，艺术制造的人工智能不是技术意义上的人工智能，而是作为真实元素的组合。雅典让我远离雅典，这是一种伪装的祝福，因为这让我能够为我的项目带来活力。网络开始谈论…
So here, my project for the biennial in Athens is the continuation of the project that I started with the Berlin Biennale 2016. This is my actual
因此，在这里，我的雅典双年展项目是我从2016年柏林双年展开始的项目的延续。这是我的实际情况
work which represents me, not my old works that have been exhibited and attached to the walls without my cooperation, however that said I am grateful to Poca Yo and his team who gave me the opportunity to contribute and above all where they put together a dynamic exhibition where in contrast to the misfortune of #Documenta14 not only do we encounter mountains of patterns but these mountains also move!
代表我的作品，不是我在没有我的合作的情况下展示和贴在墙上的旧作品，而是说我很感谢Poca Yo和他的团队，他们给了我贡献的机会，最重要的是，他们把一个动态的展览放在一起，与文件14的不幸相比，我们不仅会遇到二山的格局，但这些山也在移动！
Miltos Manetas Looking at Athens Biennale. Courtesy of the artist
米尔托斯·曼内塔在看雅典双年展。艺术家的礼貌
Montenero, Sabina
萨比纳·蒙特内罗
Miltos Manetas, 2016-2018: “Berlinbiennial”, pagina instagram. AthensBiennale 2018, Athens, Greece
Miltos Manetas，2016-2018：“柏林年”，Pagina Instagram.2018雅典双年展，希腊雅典
Miltos Manetas, “Berlinbiennial”, 2016-2018, Instagram page (www.instagram.com/berlinbiennial), updated for ANTI, the 06th Athens Biennale
Miltos Manetas，“Berlinbiennial”，2016-2018年，Instagram页面（www.instagram.com/berlinbiennial），更新为Anti，第06届雅典双年展
Miltos Manetas 2018: PaintingwithLikes for the Athens Biennale
Miltos Manetas 2018：雅典双年展绘画
